What if your relationships could be less about conflict and more about meaningful connection? That’s the tantalizing prospect we explore with my guest, the insightful Chelsea Liaga – a former teacher, now couples therapist, and content creator. Chelsea takes us on a deep dive into the world of relationships, introducing us to three primary conflict styles and how these styles are often manifestations of our own insecurities and self-doubts.
Together, Chelsea and I untangle the complex web of communication and conflict resolution strategies that can make or break relationships. From the power of "I" statements to the significance of awareness and vulnerability, we shed light on techniques that foster understanding and empathy. We also delve into how attachment styles and trauma can influence these conflict styles and why it's essential to create an environment of emotional safety for meaningful connections.
In the final part of our discussion, we explore how our childhood experiences shape our adult conflict styles and how we can use inner child work and self-compassion to break these patterns. We also cast a discerning eye on toxic or dead-end relationships, identifying red flags and stressing the importance of feeling safe and connected. This episode is not just about understanding your conflict style but also about how you can leverage this understanding to build stronger, happier relationships. Don't miss this illuminating conversation with Chelsea Liaga!
More About Chelsey;
Chelsey Liaga is a former teacher turned couples therapist and content creator. Known as my friend, the therapist on Instagram, Chelsey shares relatable and re-searched base information to help couples create the marriage of their dreams.
Ways to Connect with Chelsey:
IG: @myfriend.thetherapist
Website: www.myfriendthetherapist.com
E Book: https://myfriendthetherapist.com/opt-in/
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Corissa is a Somatic Trauma-Informed Relationship Coach™ & Narcissistic Abuse Specialist ™ who helps women cultivate loving, fulfilling relationships by releasing their limiting beliefs and emotional triggers. She is also a recovering people pleaser, perfectionist, and codependent who guides clients through healing their inner critic, letting go of the guilt, and the tendency to give more than they have. She helps clients release the patterns that are holding them back so they can step into a more empowered, authentic, confident, and interdependent version of themselves and ultimately find a meaningful relationship that aligns with their true value and worth.
Book a FREE 30-minute Confidential Clarity Call via my website below.
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I'd love to hear what you think so be sure to drop me a voice message via the Podcast Website above. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, write a review, or share it so we can reach more people!
Welcome to the Stepping Into Meaningful Relationships podcast. I'm your host, carissa Stepp. I'm a relationship and human design coach, and this podcast is designed to help you create a stronger connection to yourself so you can transform the relationships around you, whether that be with your partner, a friend, a parent, a child or your business. We will be looking at relationships through the lens of human design, and my guests and I will bring you the tools, tips and tricks to create deeply meaningful connections with others. But first let's start with you. The most important relationship you have is the one with yourself. Thank you for tuning in. Now let's get to today's episode. Hey, hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Stepping Into Meaningful Relationships, the podcast where we help you create a more meaningful connection with yourself so that you can create deeper and healthier relationships with those around you. Today, I am going to be chatting with Chelsea Liaga. She is a former teacher, turned couples therapist and content creator, known as my friend the therapist. On Instagram, chelsea shares relatable and researched-based information to help couples create the marriage of their dreams. Chelsea, thank you so much for being on the show today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Great, I'm so excited too, and what we're going to be talking about today is how to have less conflict and more connection in your relationships. So, chelsea, I'd love for you to share with the audience a little bit more about the different conflict styles because we were chatting about this before we hit record and I'd love for you to share your wisdom and your knowledge to help us identify what our conflict styles are and why they're important to be aware of.
Speaker 2:Yes, of course there are three main conflict styles, and whenever I'm talking about conflict with people, I always like to preface it by saying that conflict is normal in a relationship. But when we can turn conflict into communication. Communication is what brings us from where our marriage is at, where it feels icky or we don't like it, to where we want it to be. So learning about conflict styles and identifying your patterns is just the key to improving your communication so that you can improve all the aspects of your relationship. So the three main types of conflict are they're kind of patterns. I like to imagine them as people. This first one so you've got two people, one is the chaser and one is the runner and all of these conflict styles are based in what's called EFT or Emotion-Focused Therapy. So in the first one, the chaser and the runner imagine like little kids playing chase on the playground. One person is running away, that's the runner, and then the other person is chasing them, and usually in conflict you and your partner are equally matched in speed. So the runner is running away at three miles an hour and the chaser is chasing at three miles an hour and you're not actually getting any closer to each other. You're not winning the game or anything. You're both just getting exhausted because you're chasing each other and just getting worn out. Usually the chaser is criticizing and then the runner is withdrawing. So the act of chasing is saying, like you know, you're doing this wrong. We need to work on this, we need to improve this. If you did this, our marriage would be better. It's very like there's something wrong with you and if that was better, things would be better. And then the runner feels like I'm not good enough. Why should I be in this relationship? I'm just making things worse. I'm never going to measure up. So they withdraw emotionally or physically.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I could see that it's almost like why bother trying? Nothing I do is good enough anyway.
Speaker 2:For sure, for sure and I think we all do this at times in our lives Like I'm not very athletic, so, like with sports, I'm like, I'm not competitive, I don't even want to try because I know I'm not going to be good right, and but we do the same thing with our relationships too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we self sabotage. We have that fear of failure. Why, why should I bother trying if I'm going to fail anyway? I might as well save myself from the pain and just not do it.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and not to throw out gender stereotypes, but usually women are the chaser and men are the runners. Women are more prone and likely to be perfectionists and their efforts to chase or to improve their relationships or criticize their partner. They're usually from a good place, they want things to get better, but it's usually the delivery that then makes the runner feel like they're not good enough.
Speaker 1:Right, hence the conflict that comes from. Yeah, yes, I understand. Okay, so, while you mentioned, like women are, have like a good intention around why they're bringing this up right, cause they have this end goal that they want, which is a closer, deeper connection with their partner. But I can also see how potentially some wounding could be showing up for both of these partners that have adapted these behaviors or patterns of behavior that are causing them to feel like they need to behave in the way that they are. So, in other words, if we're criticizing our partner for, say, not being good enough or not doing enough or whatever it might be, it could actually be reflective of maybe we're not feeling good enough.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, and usually it all kind of goes back to our open thoughts, our own mindset, and there's a lot of environmental and certain stances of things that make women more likely to be perfectionists, like just like female beauty standards and, you know, societal expectations of women. There's a lot of expectations placed on women, so then they don't feel good enough. They're being criticized by society and media and advertising all the time, and so then they're like well, I got to get better. And then that bleeds into the relationship. Then we need to get better and you need to get better, cause I'm working so hard on myself. You need to be working hard to improve too. And then women just get exhausted and they're like I'm tired of carrying the weight of improving our relationship all the time.
Speaker 1:Right, and I guess I would also say that, like, maybe women are probably the largest consumer of self development whether it's books or tools or, you know, therapy or counseling or coaching as opposed to men anyway. So it's like I can see how, when we start doing the work on ourselves, sometimes it can create more conflict in the relationship because we feel like, you know, I'm doing this work to improve and I'm, you know, rising up or evolving in some way, and at the other hand, it's like there's this fear of I'm leaving my partner behind or you know he's not rising up to meet me, you know he's not rising to the occasion and also doing this work on himself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that can definitely be a dynamic that comes into play and something that I think is so amazing about a lot of men. I mean, my husband is the man I know the best, but he is just so like content with who he is. There's like this quiet confidence about him and I think a lot of men have that, a lot of men don't but just it's not like a I don't need to improve because I'm fine, but it's just like I'm a good person, things are okay. It's like this quiet confidence that I think the female population could definitely learn from at times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's one dynamic right the chaser and the runner. And the other thing that I kind of wanted to talk about real quick and then I want to continue from there with more questions which is I also see this happen a lot in a lot of toxic and unhealthy relationships too, right, so we're talking about this assuming that people are in healthy relationships, but there's also moreorder, um go ahead. Something that I want to bring up, which is in unhealthy relationships. We see a lot of this chasing and running as well, because the abuse cycle is very much a chase and a run. You know, you've got this like love bombing phase right, where you've got your partner coming in and they're just adoring you and they're lavishing all this attention and love and all these things that make us feel so good that maybe we've been seeking for so long outside of ourselves instead of giving it to ourselves to begin with, right, and then we get to the devaluation phase and then the discard phase and then the hoovering, right. So we kind of like go through this like constant run around of chasing the thing right, chasing the next high, and so we see that a lot, and it's actually when we talk about this cycle. There's an addictive component to it. Right, that's what creates a trauma bond. It's really that addiction to chasing that next high after the low, and so our brain and the highs secreting all those happy dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin chemicals, and then when we get into the lows, our body is secreting, you know, norapenifrin, epenifrin and cortisol, and so we're constantly looking to get back onto that next feel good kind of happy hormone cycle. So I don't want to dive into that and go in a different direction, but I just wanted to highlight that if you're experiencing this in your relationship, like just be aware that if this is happening, yes, it may be normal If you're in a healthy relationship. If this is happening in an unhealthy relationship, then this is a red flag for you and you need to pay attention. So I'm just going to put that little footnote on that conversation.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think that is super important because, yeah, there's a lot of patterns that are normal, but they're exaggerated in an abusive relationship and there's a lot more harm that is done in them. So yeah, thanks for pointing that out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's one conflict style, and then there are a couple of more.
Speaker 2:Yes. So the next conflict style is the blame game, and sometimes people might be a runner and a chaser and then the runner gets fed up and so they start to criticize back and that usually kind of turns into this blame game. There's other things too that you know, like why someone might be one conflict style versus another, like personality type, gender, how you were raised. All sorts of things like that kind of play a role here. But the blame game is where one partner blames the other for whatever the problem is. Let's say, you know the dishes aren't done, and so partner one it says to partner to oh, this is all your fault, you never do the dishes. And partner two says yeah, but you didn't mop the floors like you said you were going to. And it just goes back and forth, back and forth, shooting these emotional bullets at each other, blaming each other and seeing your partner as the problem instead of the real problem. As the problem, like in this example, the chores are the problem, not your partner, and we hurt each other when we do that.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting, though, because the chores aren't the problem. It's pointing towards a deeper wound, right? So when we feel like our partner is not doing the dishes, we think that they're saying to us that their time is more important than our time or they're more valuable than us, right? There's like that subtle that trigger that happens where you know, our core wound of like I'm not important or I'm not enough or I'm not lovable or whatever it might be, gets triggered, and then we react and we just need to take that hurt that we are feeling and project it out onto somebody else because that's feel safer to just get into like this, to like defended position, to just pass it off like a hot potato back to somebody else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, too painful to hold within ourselves, so we got to push it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, instead of doing the work on ourselves and understanding like, oh wait, I'm feeling triggered right now. Let me take a deep breath, let me focus on what I'm feeling and let me understand why I'm feeling this way. Is it really about the chores or is there something else underneath all of this that needs to be addressed, whether it's within myself or within the relationship?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly. And when someone can do that, their nervous system stays more regulated, they're more calm, and then they're able to communicate in a way that's kind and respectful and productive.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I could talk about the nervous system all day long. I'm not going to go off on a tangent Hi, it's a big part of my work. So I love, I love, love, love talking about the nervous system and how we move through the different nervous system states and how we can down regulate ourselves, and why it's important and how that's like such a huge key to making sure that we're showing up calm and present and grounded in our relationships that we can change how we relate to other people and communicate with other people. But I'm going to back off.
Speaker 2:Maybe we should do a part two and talk about the nervous system, because I love it too.
Speaker 1:That would be a great idea. So okay, so we have this like blame game happening, where people are just passing the buck back and forth and essentially no one's taking accountability. So how, we kind of talked a little bit about how maybe we can start to resolve that conflict. But in the moment, like what can people do when they're experiencing, because it doesn't feel very good when you're passing the blame back and forth? So like, what can we do to disrupt that? Maybe, like what's one thing people can do today to disrupt that pattern?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think using I statements instead of you statements is always always. It's usually the key to almost every conflict style. So instead of saying you never do the dishes, saying something like I feel frustrated that the dishes aren't done, it keeps the emotional charge on the dishes instead of the person. So then your partner isn't going to feel attacked, so then they're not going to fight back, they're not going to start blaming you for something else. And a key to kind of both of these is that if your partner is acting either defensively or they're running away with drawing, that means they felt criticized in some way. So that is just data for you to take and learn from and say, okay, maybe my approach wasn't the best it could have been in that situation. Obviously, your partner could work on the way that they receive it, but you can't control that. You can really only control the way that you act. So using I statements expressing feelings and keeping it focused on the actual problem at hand and if you and your partner do and start blaming each other for things, just saying the phrase we're on the same team could just really calm everyone down and remind everyone like we're on the same team. The enemy here is the dishes or the in-laws or the trash can or whatever it is, and not each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. You know to your point. It's almost like if that's something that really bothers you, because maybe you have a boundary around having, you know, cleanliness in your home or whatever. It might be right, because we obviously value different things, and so sometimes it's like when our values are compromised in some way by our partner, it's our clue that we need to set a boundary right, and it could be just as you're saying, using an I statement to share how you're feeling. Right, like I feel really frustrated when the dishes aren't done, because it makes me feel like you don't value my time and you're expecting me to get it done. What I need is, if you're responsible for the dishes you know, if you're not to do the dishes, or if you're the one who made the dirty dishes, would it be possible to make sure that, within a couple of hours from whatever it might be Like, whatever your boundary is like, I need you to rinse it and put it in the dishwasher so that I'm not left feeling like you're expecting me to do it, which causes me frustration. Right, like I just feel like sometimes we talk a lot about even just like with boundaries, people think that it's like saying no and like that's the only thing. But I feel like to resolve conflict. Sometimes it's like if we have boundaries and we've set the expectations beforehand, it minimizes that conflict.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly, and that's what I love. Are you familiar with the Fair Play system? I?
Speaker 1:am. I just got the card deck in the book and I'm like I need to recommend this to everybody.
Speaker 2:It's amazing and that's what I love about the Fair Play system. Anyone listening it's by Eve Rodskeying. We'll look up her book. There's a documentary on Hulu about it. But yeah, it really. It sets up these boundaries and these systems to know who's in charge of what, so that you don't have to waste your time communicating about the dishes and you can live a more meaningful life outside of chores and things like that. So love the Fair Play system for that.
Speaker 1:So I want to bring you just back to the chaser and the runner real quick, because we talked a little bit about how to resolve the conflict in the blame game, but how do we resolve that chase in the chaser runner situation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, both people in the partnership have to be able to recognize what's going on. The person who withdraws, the runner, needs to know and needs to be able to express what it feels like when they are withdrawing. They need to be able to say you know these, this tone of voice, this word choice, this posture, whatever makes me feel unsafe and that's why I withdraw. They need to be able to express that. And then the chaser needs to be able to stop chasing. Pretty much the runner needs to stop running. The chaser needs to stop chasing, and not chasing looks like not criticizing, expressing more gratitude, using I statements instead of you statements again. So instead of saying that you need to improve the relationship or you need to stop whatever, sharing more of how you feel, a lot of it comes down to vulnerability. Both people have to be a little more vulnerable. The chaser has to say you know, I felt unsafe in some way and that's why I started chasing you. And the runner needs to say I felt unsafe in this way and that's why I started running. And once you both stop running and chasing, then you can turn towards each other and connect and communicate and develop that emotional safety that you need to be able to stay close to each other instead of run away from each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely I love that. And, like, what came to mind was I feel like most people carry this wound of abandonment, right, this fear of rejection. And that's often times why we run or why we chase is because we're afraid we're going to get rejected. And so we're either running from it because we're like I can't, because I'm going to get rejected, I'm going to get criticized, that that's a rejection, right. And then the chaser is kind of like oh, don't leave me, wait, wait for me. Like you can't go anywhere, get back here. And what I also thought about as you were talking was I feel like this is even reflective of attachment styles, right, anxious attachment and avoidant attachment, and I was wondering, like, obviously, does that play into even determining what your conflict style is?
Speaker 2:It totally could. It totally could. And what's interesting is that attachment styles really all come down to trauma and nervous system stuff Like everything really, I feel like always comes back to the nervous system. But someone who is anxiously attached is more likely, I say, to be a chaser, and someone who is more avoidantly attached is more likely to be a runner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I could see, even though, how the roles could flip, because you know, I think that our attachment styles I think that sometimes, like we're not just one attachment style, we can actually be a blend, and I think, depending on who we're with and what they bring out in us, will depend on which pattern of behavior kind of shows up more in the relationship. And so it's almost like being aware of what your patterns of behavior are when you're feeling unsafe is the key to understanding how you're showing up and acting from those insecurities in the relationship or within yourself even, so that you can disrupt that pattern and yeah exactly yeah, and instead like respond instead of react.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and it all comes back to that safety, that emotional safety. When you feel emotionally safe with your partner, you can tell them anything and you can do it in a calm, kind, clear way, because your brain is working fully all the parts, your prefrontal cortex is online, so you can say things in the way that you mean and that align with your values and that don't hurt other people's feelings. And I mean we could do a whole nother podcast on just what emotional safety is and how to create it, but just reflect on the times with your partner where you felt like you really could have a good deep discussion with them or you felt so close and connected to them, and that's really emotional safety.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that we have to create that safety within ourselves first, so that we feel safe being vulnerable, because vulnerability, I believe, is the key to creating that emotional intimacy. Yeah, so what's the third conflict style?
Speaker 2:Third conflict style is called the double freeze out. It's usually where people end up last, after they've chased each other, they've worn out some of the straw breaks and they just start blaming each other. And then eventually everyone is just tired of it and the relationship is cold. There's not a lot of fighting, but there's not a lot of warmth. It's like you're just roommates living in the same house. You feel a lot of resentment towards the other person, but you've had so many bad experiences with communication that it doesn't feel safe to talk about things. So you just hold it in and maybe every once in a while you explode and yell at other, and then you go back to the silent treatment. And most people with this complex style. They talk about important things. They'll talk about you know, like oh, my family's coming into town, or you know we need to buy a new car. You know they'll communicate about things, but they don't really communicate on an emotional level. They don't say things like hey, when you talk to me in that tone of voice, it really hurt my feelings and I need you to, you know, be a little bit more respectful next time. They wouldn't say things like that, because that just is so far outside of where they feel comfortable and safe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if people come to you and they're in that double freeze out state in their relationship, is that like DUA, like dead upon arrival, or is there actually a chance to work with them to get through that? Because I mean, I've even thinking of like a nervous system standpoint, like both partners at that point are in a freeze state, right, they're dissociated, they're emotionally disconnected or numbed out, right, they're just kind of just going through the motions and, like you said, they're not feeling safe in the relationship. They're probably not feeling safe within themselves to be able to allow any kind of vulnerability. So how do we, how do people, start to claw back from that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I'll also add too, like this is the time where infidelity is most likely to happen. Because your needs aren't getting met by your partner, because you don't feel safe expressing them, so you turn to other places. But in couples therapy, if I have a couple who comes in and they're like this, I would recommend them both for individual therapy as well, just so that they can learn how to manage their thoughts and their emotions and improve some of the lifestyle things that are going to help them to feel more connected with themselves, so that they can identify there's a lot of self betrayal that goes on when you're in a double freeze out, because you know what's going on in your heart and in your mind but you just can't express it, and that feels like for a lot of people like a self betrayal, so then it messes with our confidence and all sorts of things that can be really dangerous. So this is a situation where I would where there needs to be more support for individuals and for the marriage.
Speaker 1:Interesting. And then would you recommend them that couples get separate individual therapists and then obviously a joint couples therapist is what works best, yeah, so there would be like three people. Gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense and I could see that. I could see how there is that self betrayal aspect to it. I could also see that people start to self abandon parts of themselves, like if they don't feel safe even being themselves. Then it could be really hard to show up in a relationship and feel comfortable voicing your truth or voicing how you feel and how you. You know what's going on for you, what your fears are. Right, because I think a lot of times it's like when we're in that freeze state it's because we are so overwhelmed with some subconscious perception of danger, right, like it's not safe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that's really what it is, and we slowly, slowly, slowly work on creating that emotional safety. I'll have my practice talking about insignificant things so that they can just warm up to it. I one of the exercises I have my clients do at this point is I have them plan a fake trip to Disneyland and talk about you know, there's a lot of decisions that have to be made and I make them practice, you know, paraphrasing what the other person said validating their feelings, respecting their opinions about you know where they want to stay and what rides they want to ride. You know all these different things because you've had a bunch of data points that tells you we can't even communicate, it's not safe, so that we need to start creating a new set of data points that tells you okay, we talked about our fake trip to Disneyland, maybe we can talk about I don't know our plans for the holidays, and that's real. Or maybe we can talk about finances, and that's real, or you know, and then we kind of step into it and then eventually we're like, okay, maybe we can talk about our emotions, and then maybe we can talk about sex and then maybe we can talk about all these other things. So it's kind of baby steps in practicing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's almost like a titration, because if you move too fast it's almost your nervous system is going to shut down again anyway. So you kind of have to move at the pace. Yeah, a slow pace, right times two for both people.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:So interesting. So okay, so we've talked about the different conflict styles. And how can we so? It seems to me almost like they're not even styles. It almost feels to me like they're stages. Is that right? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it kind of depends on the person. Some people will stay and chase her and run her forever. Some people are just more naturally, you know, depending on their worldview, they might be more likely to blame first than you know. There's so many things that go into it, but for a lot of people they are stages, and that's what I why I love talking about this, because once you can realize what your conflict style is and you can see it in the moment, then you can do something different and you can change it. You can try something else, and that's really the simplest way to improve your relationship is just to try something different, because obviously what you're doing isn't working.
Speaker 1:Right, and I think that, like your conflict style, is probably very tied into your communication style too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and most people find the same pattern of like I criticize my spouse, but then my mom also feels like I criticize her and my best friend also feels like I criticize her. And it usually goes with the person and not necessarily the relationship, which can be a really hard pill for some people to swallow, because that takes some humility and looking inward.
Speaker 1:But but I think they probably also have a really loud inner critic too.
Speaker 2:Like their own inner critic, they're probably also criticizing themselves for sure, and that's usually what it comes down to is our core beliefs about ourselves.
Speaker 1:And it's like once we heal that, because this is why this podcast exists, which is all about creating a deeper relationship with yourself, because that's going to help you in your relationships. Because if you can learn how to self accept, if you can learn how to quiet that inner critic and learn to love yourself, then in your relationships you're not going to be projecting all of that onto somebody else. Number one and number two it allows you to then learn how to accept someone else for their differences, for their you know perceived flaws or weaknesses and all that kind of stuff, because once we realize that we're not perfect, we can accept that someone else is also not perfect and we're all works in progress and it's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And you know, the opposite of criticism is compassion. And once you can learn self compassion, then it's easier to offer compassion to other people. And we can, and I mean, most of us aren't rude like. We try to offer compassion to people even if we don't like ourselves, but it's usually not as genuine and as deep and as vulnerable as it is when we can offer it to ourselves.
Speaker 1:I think it's also coupled with understanding, because when we get into relationships, we don't often spend time talking about, well, what are your deep inner core wounds that you carry from childhood, you know? So it's really hard to see where someone might be acting from that place, right, acting from their, their scars, even right Like it's it's, it's really hard to really uncover and understand. And so having conversations where people are able to vulnerably open up and be like you know, I had these, this experience as a child, and sometimes, you know, we have adverse childhood experiences that may not be these big traumas or these big events that we can even identify and label. It's just a series of these like small little. It's almost like these little paper cuts that happen over time, but what they do is they, they create over time. Those paper cuts create something bigger. They create a bigger cut or wound or whatever, and so we don't even realize how it has impacted our own self perception and created then a set of beliefs around that that, when triggered, causes us to then behave in a certain way. Right, it causes the emotions that surround that and then the actions that come from it. So it's like we don't really think about a whole person and all of these things, especially when we're dating or we're married. And it's not until you start doing a lot of work on yourself and you can see that within you can you then begin to get curious in your relationship and try to understand your partner at the same level by talking about it and by opening up and being vulnerable, and hopefully they reciprocate and will vulnerably share back with you to create more of that emotional intimacy and understanding between the two of you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and like a question I asked my clients a lot to help them kind of start this discussion among themselves is when you're in a fight with your partner, what does it remind you of? And a lot of times they say it reminds me of when my parents were yelling at me as a kid. If you see, if you kind of reflect on like, how did I act when I was getting in trouble as a kid? Did you go and, like, hide in your room? Did you yell back at your parents? Did you just sit there and take it? That's probably pretty reflective of what your conflict style is like now as an adult.
Speaker 1:I'd also wonder if what the punishment was quote-unquote that your parents gave you when you were not behaving, if that has something to do with the two Like I feel like I'm just thinking in my head. I'm like, wow, like a child who was sent to their room when they were being emotional and they were sharing how they felt about something, and then they were told to go to their room until they calmed down. How that can make somebody learn over time to just shut down their feelings and to run and hide instead of sharing it, because they felt like it wasn't okay, it wasn't safe to do that, or maybe it was a burden to other people, like to their parents right To share in that very emotive kind of way.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Then it can be so triggering then when our partner leaves or they tell us like you need to go on a walk or something like that, we just go back to then this wounded child who wasn't getting taken care of like they needed to, yeah, and it can be really there's, you know, the 30 year old version of us but the 29 and the 28 and all the different ages down to infancy inside of us and when we can understand that and recognize that, it just helps us to see our patterns, yeah, and we don't want to use it as a way to, like you know, justify bad behavior or whatever, but just it gives you a little bit more insight. And then you can kind of work on that inner child stuff and be like, okay, well, the adult version of me knows how to handle this. You know, I'm a grownup, I can use good communication, I can talk to my partner about this, but the six year old version of me is hurt and maybe she needs a hug and she needs some connection, and being able to give that to yourself can be just that. That's like the ultimate form of self compassion, right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. Oh, inner child work so important. I could talk about that for hours too. So many people don't realize they're like, oh, that seems like, it seems to I don't know. People are like I'm, I'm me, like there's not other versions of me and I'm like, well, there's no other versions of you, but there are parts of you that are acting out, that are still five years old. You know, like that they're still upset about something and they're showing up right now and you need to, like, have a conversation or do the healing or, you know, understand what it is that they want to say, because they're trying to get your attention right, like, and not to say that, like we've got different personalities and people in our head, but but that's what happens we revert back to being that five year old during the temper tantrum, who didn't know how to properly communicate and express or even understand what they were feeling because it was so overwhelming. So, doing the work to you know, allow yourself the space to feel your emotions, to understand what's coming up, for you to know that it's okay if you feel angry, because I think a lot of us even grew up thinking that being angry was not okay because we, you know, got in trouble for that, or, you know, it looked like talking back to our parents, which was not okay, which, of course, like being disrespectful, is not okay, but that was just the way we knew how to communicate. Maybe when we were a teenager. You know our anger.
Speaker 2:And no one taught us the skills of how to appropriately express anger. So what was? Either express it the way I know how and get in trouble, or don't express it at all. Right, yeah, and an image that I kind of draw up for myself when I'm working with clients, because sometimes it can be kind of exhausting doing public therapy. There's a lot of emotions to manage in the room, both of theirs and my own, and trying to make progress and keep everyone on track and whatever. Anyways, something that like always kind of centers me is imagining, like I have these two adults on my couch, but then I also try to imagine that I also have like two five year olds on my couch and not in a way to like I'm not trying to like demean my clients or whatever, but there is the five year old version of them in there and they're trying to communicate to, and it's two adults having a discussion, but it's also two kids having a discussion, and that's something that always just helps me then to offer more compassion and more understanding and more help to my clients.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and see really where the hurt's coming from. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think, like to your point. It's like a lot of us don't learn how to communicate properly, and especially if we had parents that were really dysregulated and didn't know how to communicate themselves and that was modeled for us, then we're going to, obviously it's going to, of course, be very a big reminder when we are fighting and arguing with our partner that it's going to, you know, bring us back to childhood and our parents and what they were doing, because we're probably just reenacting their communication patterns and conflict style as well, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think that right there is like the biggest motivation for people to improve their relationships and their marriages is they want to give their kids a better example.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that for sure. Well, this has been such a great and fun conversation. Is there anything else that you feel like might be helpful for the listeners to know or to understand? And then, obviously, I would love for you to share how everyone can connect with you, which will have all your information in the show notes. But is there anything else that you wanted to share?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would just add that kind of like what I mentioned earlier if what you're doing isn't working, don't blame yourself, don't you know? Beat yourself up. You probably didn't have good examples. You've probably never learned about this. It's okay to be a beginner at good communication, but trying new ways of saying things, new ways of connecting with your partner, is really the only way forward, and we're bad at things when we're new at them, but the more we practice, if you don't give up and literally just keep trying and keep trying new things, trying to say things in a different way or in a different place or at a different time, eventually you're going to figure it out. Everything is figure outable and if you feel like really overwhelmed by it, reach out for help. That's what couples of service are here for to guide people through this whole process. So that's my advice?
Speaker 1:Awesome, I actually like. Let me do like one more question before I let you go, which is when is it not figure outable? Like when do you realize, like when you've got a couple sitting in front of you, that you're like, okay, this is either really toxic and it's not going to improve, or you know, when are you like, okay, this is a relationship that, just there, it's not going to move forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if well, if someone has cheated and they don't see that as morally wrong, then that is a huge sign that there's this is just not a good match, that that person probably should not be in relationships if they morally don't feel like cheating is a bad thing. So if that ever comes up and they don't feel remorse and they don't feel like it was a bad thing, then that is a time where I'm like I would suggest separation, abuse anytime there is abuse. I you can wait around and hope and pray that your partner is going to change. But research shows that the odds are very, very, very, very low that people who are abusers stop being abusers. I personally, I have to hold on to this hope that people can change, or else my worldview gets very dark. But just because someone can change or will change doesn't mean you have to stay with them. That's something else to think about. And then if partners aren't willing to both take responsibility and recognize how they're contributing to the problems in the relationship, then that's another sign to me that odds are low that things are going to get better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those are very, very good, tangible pieces of advice and identification of like okay, is this worth working on or not, or is this going to help? And I thank you for that permission slip, too that you're giving everyone, which is, even if people do change doesn't mean you have to stay with them, because sometimes I feel like people are like there's just too much water under the bridge, there's just been too much hurt, and if people find that they're not able to move past that which you know there could be still forgiveness, like you forgive the person for what happened, but maybe the disconnect or the hurt has gone so deep that getting back to that emotional safety just feels like you're not just like jumping a puddle or jumping like a small crack in the floor, but the divide has gotten so wide that it feels almost impossible to cross. Would you agree? Like that would probably be?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I and I always just think to like, if you, even if your partner does change and they're not like abusive anymore, they don't cheat anymore, if you aren't able to eventually feel safe, then how is that going to impact the other areas of your life? It's going to impact your health, it's going to impact your sleep, it's going to impact your other relationships, it's going to impact your ability to perform at work and it's going to be impacting your entire life. So that's just another thing to think about and kind of reflect on. Even if they change, do I feel completely safe in my home? Do I feel completely safe with this person? Do I feel safe with myself? And kind of reflecting on the pros and cons through that lens can be helpful for people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. And also, I guess I would also say if you can't, if you don't feel love for your partner anymore, even if they change like that's obviously going to be a clear indicator that maybe it's okay to walk away and it's time to go move on. Yeah Well, thank you so much, telsy. So how can everybody reach you, and is there anything coming up that you're offering that you'd like to share with the audience?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I had an ebook about all about these conflict styles. In there it starts off with a quiz, helps you to kind of figure out what your conflict style is, and then there's kind of a mini chapter about each. So I kind of want like a rundown of everything we've talked about today. I'm assuming we could put a link to that in the show notes. Absolutely, yeah. And then I offer couples therapy in Arizona in person my office is in Queen Creek and then I do coaching online and I have some courses and date night resources, and it's all on my website, which is myfriendthetherapistcom.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on the show and this has been such a fun conversation and really informative and valuable, and I know that the listeners definitely got something out of it. So thank you so much for your time and the work that you're doing in this world.
Speaker 2:Of course. Thank you so much, bye.
Speaker 1:All right, everyone, until next week, be well. If you're hearing this message, that means you've listened all the way to the end, and for that I am truly grateful. If you enjoyed this episode and found it valuable, would you mind leaving us a review? Wherever you listen to podcasts and sharing it with others? If you'd like to connect with me for one-on-one coaching or human design reading, you can find me on my website or on social media. Also, if you have a topic you'd like me to discuss on a future episode, please DM me. Be sure to tune in next week for another episode of Stepping into Meaningful Relationships.